United States Eventing Association

The second of two ICP Symposiums, taught by Chris Bartle, was held at Longwood Farm South, Ocala, Fla., on January 19-20th. Liz Halliday, Sharon White and Lauren Kieffer share their impressions and experiences. Click here to listen, or listen below:

Chris Stafford: This is the United States Eventing Association’s official podcast. Hello and welcome to the program. I’m Chris Stafford. Chris Bartle hosted the second of 2 ICP symposiums at Longwood Farm South in Ocala, Florida, on January 19th and 20th. On this week’s episode, we hear from 3 riders: Lauren Kieffer, Liz Halliday and Sharon White, to get their impressions of the symposium. We begin with Liz who rode in a dressage session. Liz, tell us about the horse you rode and what you took away from this.

Liz Halliday: It was great for me. I’ve know Chris for a lot of years just over in Britain mainly and throughout the U.S. and Europe. It was fun to actually have a lesson with them. We have never done that before. The horse I brought was HHS Cooley, who is a really cool horse I’ve had from a 7-year-old. He’s done pretty much all his eventing with me. I purchased him from Richard Sheane back in 2011. He did the Galway CCI 3 star in 2013 and finished 3rd. That was his first CCI 3 star.

And then unfortunately, he sustained a really freak injury last year and most of his season past about May. It’s great to have the horse back. I really believe in him. I think he’s a world class horse and he’s a sensitive ride, can be a little bit tricky. He’s always a trier and I think if we can really get the flat work down, he’s a great jumper and I think then we’d have the whole package.

It’s just working on the upper level stuff with him, just improving a few things that we’ve struggled with an just getting him back up and running as a top-level horse.

Chris Stafford: What were those things that you really wanted Chris to focus on from that dressage session?

Liz Halliday: I wanted to work a bit of shoulder in and the half-pass movements. The horse gets a little bit stuck. He struggles with lateral bend. He’s got a lot of great crossing, but he just needs to get comfortable changing direction and just being more comfortable with the upper level movements. We also worked on flying changes. He’s a horse with a great change. He nearly always changes clean, but he throws his body around a bit. He’s not very straight and he swings his haunches and things like that.

It was great because he straight away, he practiced the new 3 star test movement, which was a great experience for me, just throw the horse right into that. I felt he handled it pretty well. Then we worked away on a few exercises for improving the flying change and I think the horse did a spectacular change at the end. He really had a lot of lift and was really comfortable and was much straighter, so it was great. It was a good experience, really. Good to get the horse out well and be around people and activity. Yeah, it was fun. I really enjoyed it.

Chris Stafford: As you say, you know Chris. You’re both based here in Ocala in the winter now and also in the U.K., so you all appreciate the difference in techniques for trainers, as well. The language might be slightly different, but what were your take-aways from Chris’ style and how he applies those techniques?

Liz Halliday: One thing I really liked was him saying his theory, he calls it “this and then that.” I really liked that. I remember picking that up and thinking about that today even when I rode my horses and asking the horse something and then asking the next bit or a bit more rather than I think as riders, we get a little bit greedy sometimes. We ask everything at once and expect the horse to understand. I think that really makes sense to ask them this and then that. I liked that. I thought that was really cool.

He’s very, very technical about how he rides each movement, how he approaches even a half circle onto the flying change. There was first check that you have softness on the outside rein and then activate the inside leg and then more outside leg. It’s very much for him, I think a process when he rides. It’s a system, as he called it which I found really interesting. It’s a sneak peek into how Chris rides a horse and how he trains. I’ve not really experienced that before, so it was great.

I think new ideas are always great. You can take them away and put them in the bank and figure out what works best for you and the horses.

Chris Stafford: He clearly focuses, too, on rider biomechanics and the rider position and he’s tweaking that constantly. Did you take anything away from that aspect of the session?

Liz Halliday: I think mainly he wanted me to lift the horse up and let his nose out a bit more which really makes sense on how he said the horse then can reach better with his shoulder and just how its physicality makes that possible. I think it’s important for us as riders to remember that the horses are athletes, too, and a lot of riding is physics; it’s figuring out where the weight is put to make things more effective and how the horse needs to travel to get the most out of his own paces. I think he was big on that.

He had me sit a little bit further back in the saddle, but other than that, he didn’t say a lot to me about my position. It was more about where the horse was and positioning the horse correctly, which was great. It was a lot of good things to take away for sure.

Chris Stafford: In terms of what you could take away that you would apply to other horses at the lower levels, anything that stands out for you, Liz?

Liz Halliday: I think, thinking more about what I do, how I use my legs and where and just thinking about my weight a little bit more. I think also that “this and then that” idea, just asking the horse for something and giving them a chance to understand that and then asking them for the next question. I feel like I try and do that, but I think like I said before, as riders, you just get a little bit bowling on a little and sometimes it’s good to sit back and reassess and just think about how we’re doing our training.

I think that’s something I would look into and I look forward to watching the other lessons he taught. I didn’t have time yesterday, but I’m going to definitely watch all the videos and see what I can pick up from those.

Chris Stafford: Lots of tips there that you take away for the start of the season, which has begun for you already here in Ocala. Good luck with that, Liz, and enjoy your stay over here for winter training.

Liz Halliday: Thank you very much. I’m looking forward to it.

Chris Stafford: Now Sharon White joins us to tell us about her experience at the symposium. Sharon, welcome to the program.

Sharon White: Thank you so much, Chris; pleasure to be here.

Chris Stafford: You were part of the group in the 2nd afternoon jumping session. Tell us a little bit about the horse that you rode and what your impressions were of that session.

Sharon White: I took Patch or Wundermaske and I took him because it’s always useful to get him in a situation where there might be crowds. I was feeling slightly, not sad, but a little bad for him because he has only jumped cross rails since doing Pau in the autumn, but I thought it’ll be useful. I thought he was actually very well-behaved for that. It was fun and it was useful.

Chris Stafford: When you were going into that session, did you have any expectations or any particular requests of Chris that you needed to address with that horse, Sharon?

Sharon White: I did not. I think you have to have a realization in these symposiums that whoever is giving the symposium, it’s really for the audience, not for the riders. I just think it’s really useful to support and participate and hopefully, the audience thought it was useful. I had no expectations from Chris because I thought it’s so hard to do in that situation. That being said, I did have a wonderful eureka moment of words I’ve heard for a really long time, but when you’re finally ready to hear something, you’re ready to hear it. Apparently, I was ready to hear it yesterday.

Chris Stafford: What was that?

Sharon White: That is I need to do dressage in between my show jumps. That is not new information to me, but I think every rider out there, once they’re ready to hear something, they’re ready to hear it and I hope that’s useful for everybody out there.

Chris Stafford: What did you find was the most engaging about Chris’ style and brining that European perspective to your training methods and what you were applying? How did those two meet?

Sharon White: I really loved that everything he did was classical horsemanship. There were some interesting ways to think about things. He made some really wonderful analogies and I loved the way he canters around, he trots around. He is so enthusiastic and he brings so much energy to it, but what he’s bringing is classical horsemanship.

Chris Stafford: Tell us about the exercises that you actually did, the jumping in that jumping session, Sharon.

Sharon White: What we did was we worked on basically the quality of what we were doing to improve the jump; the quality of the work in between the jumps which again was super useful. He is saying ride dressage in between the show jumps. Then we moved on to a little bit of accuracy cross-country questions, which is at a higher rate of speed, but I think his philosophy was basically the same.

Chris Stafford: Your take-aways then from those training exercises and what you would apply then in the future for yourself, is there anything that you put in your back pocket and thought this is going to work for other horses?

Sharon White: I do believe the energy level and the enthusiasm, I think it’s huge. He had a really interesting way for driving, aids for the driving, aids meaning the leg, etc., to be much more up and forward in front of the horse rather than behind the horse. That was a new perspective that I thought very interesting.

Chris Stafford: You attended the PowerPoint presentation that he gave about cross-country riding, the rules of cross-country riding and although it was in German, there, as you mentioned, were a lot of classical points there that he made. What did you get from that PowerPoint presentation, Sharon?

Sharon White: Absolute rhythm and straightness, right; rhythm and straightness for certain when you’re going cross-country. Decide the speed and the balance you need for the obstacle in front of you all on.

Chris Stafford: He also spoke, of course, about the safety seat.

Sharon White: Yes.

Chris Stafford: Was there anything from that, that you took away? He gave some wonderful examples of the before, during and after phases of the jump. Was there anything in the analogies he used that you found useful?

Sharon White: The shorter stirrup length for certain, going cross-country and which enables you to get into the safety seat as needed easier and to stay out of the way of the horse when you do that. I think I tend to ride too long cross-country and I think that’s a pretty universal problem.

Chris Stafford: Is this do you find a problem, something that you need to address maybe with younger horses or is it something that you apply to all horses and at all levels?

Sharon White: All horses, all levels.

Chris Stafford: Now you’re going to be pulling your stirrups up a hole or 2?

Sharon White: I already did. I galloped today 4 shorter just to give myself a feel for it, which is a little extreme, but you might as well; nothing like going to extremes.

Chris Stafford: Right, you’ve gone from one extreme to the other, but in that exercise, though, that you took from Chris, how did that feel then, Sharon, when you actually rode that today?

Sharon White: It’s all just interesting and useful and doing these things you get inspired. That’s the fun thing about it, right; you get inspired to tweak a little here, tweak a little there and to realize that all of the best in the world are doing the same things. It’s reassuring in a way, as well.

Chris Stafford: The examples that he gave to commit to memory like the toe in front of the knee and the eyes above the hands, were they things that …

Sharon White: Yes and I love to jump into the swimming pool feet first. I thought that was brilliant.

Chris Stafford: Absolutely. It’s all about the defensive seat, the safety seat. Now as you teach, would you take anything from that ICP symposium of watching the other riders to your own students?

Sharon White: Absolutely. It was really … I’m a big believer in teaching look up, see the line, see everything that’s in front of you. He absolutely believes in that. That was nice to be affirmed with that. I think that’s absolute classical horsemanship. He loves his steeplechase horses, his race horses; go gallop is so useful for us. All of these things are absolutely … Again, it’s repetition, repetition, repetition of good horsemanship. I did think it was funny that he kept apologizing for repeating the same thing and that’s what good horsemanship, good riding is.

Chris Stafford: It’s all about practice, practice, practice. You took away from that then what, inspiration and confidence?

Sharon White: Absolutely.

Chris Stafford: Terrific. Obviously, you enjoyed it. What would you say to other people that are thinking of participating in the ICP Program, Sharon?

Sharon White: I think it’s wonderful. Just come join, participate. Everybody is welcome. All we’re trying to do is make everybody universally better. That’s the point of the program. That’s what eventing in the States is about. It starts with education.

Chris Stafford: What a wonderful message. Sharon, thank you very much indeed for coming on the program this week.

Sharon White: Thank you so much for having me, Chris.

Chris Stafford: Finally, we hear from Lauren Kieffer now about the horse that she rode and what she got out of the symposium. Hi, Lauren. You were part of the afternoon session. How did it go for you?

Lauren Kieffer: It went really well. I rode Cosima, owned by Jacqueline Mars. It was a great group of riders and horses and I really enjoyed the lessons.

Chris Stafford: When you were going into that lesson, what were your expectations, having watched Chris teaching over the last 2 days?

Lauren Kieffer: I was really just trying to utilize what I’d heard in his past lessons so that he wouldn’t feel like he had to repeat his self and just trying to get any small bits that I could. One of the things that really clicked with me was he talked a lot about turning inside the midline of the fence. I’ve heard it a lot in the past, such as take your first line and that kind of thing, but for some reason, that didn’t really click with where I put my eyes.

Chris Stafford: What kind of exercises did you need particularly for that horse that you found helpful?

Lauren Kieffer: In the beginning, she was quite excited by the crowd and the other horses cantering around and so Chris helped me work on, we actually did a lot of canter pirouette to get her calmed down and then he was very adamant about increased tempo around your jumping courses, not only to help the balance and to be quicker to make the time and that kind of thing. The other thing he worked on was just being very still in the air with your hands and your body and just letting the horses sort themselves out over the fence.

Chris Stafford: Did you find you were making any more conscious changes to your rider biomechanics than, Lauren, from the pointers he was giving you?

Lauren Kieffer: Yeah, just staying very aware about what my body was doing. We all try to stay still in the saddle, but certainly, when there’s a crowd of people watching you and someone has told to stay still, you certainly try a lot harder. The tempo, staying quick, medium canter in the courses was a good thing, especially when you have long canters or long turns. It’s easy to get too slow in your footwork.

Chris Stafford: What would you take away from the symposium that you would apply to other horses, as well?

Lauren Kieffer: Certainly, the increased tempo, just the general course rising where you stay on your turns, you stay on the inside of the midline when you’re turning and that sort of thing. He was very adamant about dressage between the fences and I think it’s good to be very strict about that. It’s easy when you’re on your own to let them run and jump and fall into the walk when you’re done and everything else. It’s very important to stay strict about that with yourself on all your horses.

Chris Stafford: Obviously, Chris is European, European trained and European based. Did you find there were any particular subtle differences between the way that he teaches and the kind of messages that he was trying to get across generally to that audience over the symposium?

Lauren Kieffer: I think his theories were pretty much the same. With all trainers, it’s more a matter sometimes when you say it differently, it clicks differently for certain people. He certainly said everything that I’ve been hearing for a decade from David and Karen [O’Connor] and a lot of trainers in the U.S. I think the biggest difference in the European system is I feel like they’re a bit stricter about it and I think sometimes the American riders, we just get a little happy with ourselves. I think it’s good if our trainers are a bit stricter on us, harder on us and don’t let the little details go.

One of the things I really took from his cross-country lecture was he talked a lot about the safety seat or … I don’t know if I can say this on air; the “oh shit” seat. How much time he spent talking about just saving it on cross-country was very interesting.

Chris Stafford: The pointers that he gave during that PowerPoint presentation on the evening between the 2 days, unfortunately, it was in German so it was a good lesson for everybody.

Lauren Kieffer: He could have been showing us all of their team secrets and we didn’t even know!

Chris Stafford: As you mentioned, he was really strong on that safety seat and it is noticeable the number of riders that do get in front of the center of balance and they don’t use those different pointers which I thought were really helpful. Did you take anything new away because you have pretty much a good safety seat or did you feel that when you watched that presentation?

Lauren Kieffer: Yeah, for sure. It’s just such an important thing. At the end of the day, it’s cross-country and sometimes you just need to save it. I think sometimes, for myself especially, if it gets a little ugly, I sometimes get concerned it’s not going right, but at the end of the day, you’ve just got to get it done. It’s cross-country and that’s the essence of the sport is sometimes it gets a little sticky and you still have got to kick on and stay behind the saddle and help your horse through. They get better from that.

Chris Stafford: Were there any other pieces from that presentation that you took away? As you say, when a trainer presents it, it’s always different just because the language is different, not least of all when it’s in German. Were you able to pick up anything from that, that you had not maybe practiced in the past?

Lauren Kieffer: The funny thing is, pretty much all he said, especially with the cross-country, the preparation, position and everything else, it’s very much … Really one of the only program I’ve been in is Karen and David’s, but they have the same formula for cross-country riding with your preparation, position, so on and so forth and everybody’s got different words, but it’s all the same.

Chris Stafford: Obviously, a very worthwhile couple of days for you. Anything else that you took away from the whole of that? You were watching with other riders as they practiced what he was teaching.

Lauren Kieffer: Right. I just think it was good to have someone that is so disciplined and also, obviously that’s how he trains his team is through so much discipline. I think that’s the biggest general thing we could take away from the whole clinic is how disciplined he is on the approach and everything else and that we need to keep doing that and keep making sure that we don’t just get happy with ourselves and start cantering around.

Chris Stafford: Good advice, Lauren. Thank you very much for coming on the program and sharing you impressions of the symposium.

Lauren Kieffer: Sure. Thank you, Chris.

Chris Stafford: Don’t forget, you can find out so much more about the instructor certification program on the web site at US Eventing.com. You can download this podcast from the iTunes podcast store to your SmartPhone’s podcast app so you can listen to the shows on the go. That’s it for this week. Thanks for your company. Until the next time, enjoy your eventing.