United States Eventing Association

Podcast: USEA Board Member Jonathan Holling and a Training Tip from Bea Di Grazia

As Jonathan Holling ends his tenure on the USEA Board this week, he reflects on his experiences as a Board member and Chair of the Professional Horseman's Council. Bea di Grazia offers this week's training tip on lunging.

Chris Stafford: This is the United States Eventing Association's official podcast.

Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Chris Stafford.

Jonathan Hollins has spent six years serving the Board of Governors and various other committees on the USEA and USEF and as the convention gets underway this week, he reflects on his contribution and what he'll miss. Before we hear from John, our training tip this week comes from Bea Di Grazia. Bea, welcome to the program.

Bea Di Grazia: Thank you Chris.

Chris Stafford: What do you have for us as our tip.

Bea Di Grazia: As it is a little bit of a downtime now between the last event and the start of the next season, I like to make sure that our riders are keeping in some sort of shape and also educating themselves a little bit further on how to make themselves better riders.

I would say, what I'd like to talk about as a tip would be lunging, or lunge lessons, or what you can think about when you're on the lunge line to increase your success of having more of an individualized grouping of muscles and how your bio-mechanics work.

I have just sort of a basic first thing that I like to do when I put a rider on the lunge and I start to evaluate how they're interacting with their horse and the way the horse moves.

Chris Stafford: OK. How would you start then, when you first get them on the lunge?

Bea Di Grazia: OK. I suggest that the horse that they use is something that will stay steady because you're going to be changing your balance and pressure and moving arms and legs around. Jack Lagasse was one of the first people. Actually, Jimmy Walker was the first person that actually gave a whole group of us lunge lines and an education that I think we all use to this day. Some of them were definitely for young teenagers because they included riding side saddle or standing on your feet, or all sorts of things that are a little extreme for everyday rider.

Everything came down to the rhythm and learning how to move your body in sync with the horse and to find the different balance in your seat bones, the way you use your upper body and how to, without getting really scientific about it, use your core muscles. A long time ago, no one really spoke about core muscles.

What I think is really important is that people actually take a look at the structure of the pelvis because it [inaudible 00:03:21] of the seat and when you're on the lunge line, you really should use that time to develop your seat. The pelvis is really, actually quite complex because you have four joints and then the shape and angle is completely different for men and women and everyone's individual. Hopefully the person on the ground takes that into account and doesn't try to make you look like Ingrid Klimke or Michael Young because you're not going to. You have your own specific way of moving through your pelvis.

So, you have the four joints of the pelvis and then you have all the bones that, and the [inaudible 00:04:08] from the tops of the right and left hip and all that pelvis anchors the power of your hip and your thigh and your abdomen.

I think that's the main part you focus on in your lunge lessons is how that works and how to move each part individually. Some of the exercises that we use are just really simple. Just at the walk, making sure that you face, if you drop your stirrups, and anchor your waist in a certain way so that you're not getting under your horse's leg. But, just one thing that really helps is to slide your hand, palm down, onto the seat of your saddle, sort of through the side coming into your hip, and then raised your hip up and sit on your knuckles, just with one hand, so that you can actually feel your seat bones.

That's another thing with actually knowing what the pelvis looks like. The seat bone is, a bunch of people don't even know what that is. It's [inaudible 00:05:18], which is actually just sort of a rounded shape part of your pelvis. You sit on the bramine, or seat bone, and then raise your opposite hand straight up past your ear, fingertips straight, elbow straight, so that your posture is very well aligned, so that your shoulders are even over your hips and then your arm straight so that your torso is straight. Just walk around feeling the horses hind legs move. The instructor, it's really good for them to say, which leg is lifting, so that you feel it through your seat bones. At the same time, you're controlling your upper body. Then, switch hands because everybody's likely off one side or the other.

This is something you don't need a lunge line for. You can do it without a lunge, just walking around your arena. It's so helpful if you have [inaudible 00:06:23], that's great. Your instructor is making sure or your buddy, husband, whatever, that you're really aligned. Just body awareness. It effects your horse so much in everything you do that this is the one thing that will benefit you almost as much as anything else. You need to be fit, of course, but during the winter months, really, just take yourself back and think about all the things that people just keep nattering on about in your position. We have a lot of fun with it. I work with a lot of younger people, so I can bring out all the torture devices.

I've broken a few bones, so I have neck braces, clavicle braces. We use ace bandages. Things that will give you structure. Ace bandages are great because it's movable and if you can really feel the security of how deep your seat reach could be to work with your horse's back. Your horse's back is very sensitive. Sometimes thoroughbreds feel like boards and you wonder which is going to give first, your back or their back. I remember riding for hours and hours and hours trying to fit the [inaudible 00:07:49] and just hanging onto the saddle like a monkey. All of a sudden the epiphany comes when the horse actually relaxes and lets you in. Honest to God, dressage is great and it can really enjoy [inaudible 00:08:04].

Chris, I think that's sort of a convoluted tip of the day, but really my thing is get back to the basics, think about your seat, investigate it a little bit more so that you're a better partner with your horse.

Chris Stafford: Those words these days, Bea, are core strengths and rider by mechanics and cross training.

Bea Di Grazia: Right, and there are so many people, Sally Swift was one who used imagery and when you're on the lunge, there are so many things about how to really get people to understand the feel of what they should look like and what they should be doing. Sandy Howard out here on the west coast was so into anatomy and she studied. You can find anything on any of these people, just to read up on. They were real educators and was really enlightening to spend a little bit of time and love your sport through being a little bit more educated.

Chris Stafford: Good advice. Thank you very much indeed for our tip this week, Bea.

Bea Di Grazia: Thank you Chris. Glad to be on the show.

Chris Stafford: Now, Jonathan Hollings joins me to talk about his tenure on the USEA board and I began by asking him how the committee work started for him.

John Hollings: It's funny. It's a very long story. I'll try not to draw it too much. I think at moments in your life when things are changing and this would be one of those times. It's not some big huge moment probably to most people, but to me it is. It's been a great six years. You sort of look back and think, how did this all begin? From a kid who was growing up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin who didn't even know that young riders was happening in Chicago right down the road, to somebody who now is coming off the USEA Board of Governors. After having been on it for six years, it's pretty cool.

Really for me, where it all started was, in 2008 when we had the safety crisis, I saw all that happening and I was there at Red Hills that day, and actually lost a horse. For me, I came out of that, one, really appreciating the eventing community more than I do. I think we all know how great everybody in eventing is. When something really tragic happens, and you see how everybody comes together, you sort of appreciate them even more. Then I thought to myself, you know, I'm not sure what the problem is, but I know that I need to be part of the solution.

At that moment, really that day, was sort of a bad day, a dark day for me personally,and for the sport, that was the day that I decided I needed to try to do something to make the sport better. In a lot of ways, not just due to that, but in a lot of ways.

Chris Stafford: Because committee work is not for everyone, to get involved in that aspect of the sport, but there are so many areas of expertise that are required on these committees. John, what did you feel that you were bringing, apart from being an active athlete yourself?

John Hollings: I think, at the time, I though what probably a lot of people right now think as they sit here listening to me, which was, who are all these old farts sitting on these committees running this sport, and why don't I as a rider have a say? That's what I thought at the time. I thought, surely they need to have an athlete's voice. We had athletes on there. We had Darren on there and Karen was on there. Both guys did such great jobs. There were others, you know. We've got Joe Kozlowski on there, Phyllis Dawson is on. There's nameless amounts of riders and athletes that are actually on these boards. But, at that moment, I didn't see that. I just thought, gosh, I need to get involved and, at least if things go wrong, then I feel like I've done my best to try to make things better.

Chris Stafford: During your tenure on the board particularly, John, what have you seen has changed in the sport and what have you been a part of?

John Hollings: I think the big picture that I've seen is I feel like people are more accountable now as riders and as athletes. People are taking more parts. They feel like they have more of a voice. I don't know if that's what I contributed or not, but I like to think I had a small part in that, that people, riders now feel like, OK, I can get involved. I can make a difference. I can say something and somebody is going to listen to what I have to say. I would hope that that sort of big picture thing that I've been able to do.

I got to be Chairman of the Professional Horseman's Council and that was awesome because you get to really be the voice for the athletes when you do that. That was pretty great. We did a few things there. I think we, obviously we did the controversial rider representative thing, which has had to evolve since we first got it through. I think at the end of the day, what that has done is given riders the ability that if they see something going into a competition that they have a question about, or think that they need to voice their opinion, that they now know that there's a very open channel to be able to do that. It's made that communication so much better between the athletes and the officials. I'm pretty proud of that.

The other thing that we've done is, through the Professional Horseman's Council, we were able to pretty significantly change the warm up procedure and sort of the rules of the warm ups for the horse trials and I think that's made things a lot better as well. We now, Darren and Cha Cha got it started, but I was fortunate enough to sort of be there with Gina Miles as well, who was a big part of it, and get it so that we were in solid fences at warm up. That seems like just common practice now that [inaudible 00:14:00] got a cross country warm up, you have solid fences. But it wasn't too long ago you didn't have that.

I think that has made it so much easier to get your horses ready to leave the start box. Especially the young, greener horses. Then, having additional fences in the show jumping warm up as well, that's been very helpful. That probably has been more helpful for the upper level people. I think the cross country one has been helpful, quite honestly, for the lower level horses and the show jumping more for the upper level. We really tried to bring everybody in to try to help all ends of the sport. Young horses, amateurs and professionals.

Those are just a couple of things that we've done. I guess the other thing, big picture that I hope we've done through that Professional Horseman's Council, we've been able to make it known that we have certain priorities when we go to competitions. We want to make sure we always the best footing possible, the safest courses possible, the most educational horses possible. I think that's not a job that's ever done. We have to make sure we keep working on that, but I would dare to say that things are better. Footing is better now. Standard of courses are better now. I'm not saying that, gosh, we as the riders got that done, but I think, you know, a little bit the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think that we were at least a part of making our case and I think that the course design is in the officials, sort of happily done everything they can to make things better. I would hope that we had something to do with that.

Chris Stafford: Change can often be met with some resistance, as we all know John, with committee work, particularly. What did you feel was controversial about the rider involvement, given all the positive changes that have been made?

John Hollings: I think the thing is ... look, I can relate to this more now than I could when I got involved. When you sit on boards or, I'm not an official, but I've seen it, when you're an official, but I have been an organizer. When you see it from the organizer's side, what you quite often see is riders that have legitimate concerns. Really what they just like to do is complain. They don't actually want to fix the things. That's sort of the stereotypical feeling that I think people who are currently competing in the top level field. They feel a little bit like, yeah, you know what, John? You might have a legitimate concern. But, you're not the one who's been out here busting your tail, setting up this course, and getting this all ready, so just simmer down and you do your thing, we'll do ours.

Again, as an organizer, I understand. The story I tell is, I remember organizing at Ocala one year, and I'm out there on Friday night for cross country and the guys, builders, are killing themselves and Peter is busting his tail trying to make sure everything's in order and I'm running around trying to fill in the holes here and there, figuratively, fill in the holes, here and there. Quite literally, to fill in a hole, a competitor came up to me and said, there's a hole between fence six and seven. I said, oh my gosh, I'll get right over to it. I went over there and it was literally a divot in the ground, a pile of dirt next to it. I took my foot and I pushed the dirt over and filled in the hole, and I thought to myself, really? You can't even solve that problem. I had to stop what I was doing and come over and do that. That's a little but the stereotypical, I think, feeling that a lot of times officials and builders and designers feel, is like, OK, you guys see the problem, but you've got to be a part of the solution too.

Chris Stafford: Right. It demands a team effort, doesn't it, to succeed?

John Hollings: It does.

Chris Stafford: Importantly, obviously, what you've brought to the table has seen some changes during your tenure. Let's talk about some of the other committees that you've been on, John, as well.

John Hollings: Yes. Obviously, I'm on the board and I did the Professional Horseman's Council. One of the really cool things I got to do was, I was on the nominating committee. We were responsible for finding new board members and fielding nominations from the membership, which funny enough, we don't get many of. That's one thing I'd say here, now, with everybody listening, is if you want to be involved, or you know somebody who does, nominate them. Literally, when I was on the nominating committee, if we got three or four nominations from the membership, that would be about it. They are very welcomed because we want people who want to be involved. So, I got to be on the nominating committee. That was really fun because you get to meet a lot of people. I guess that's the one thing about the board, as well.

I remember when I got on the board, there was another guy that got on the board the same year as me. He's coming off this year, as well, and Mike Winter. When I met Mike, I thought to myself, this is a numbers guy. We're never going to get along. He's coming in and he's all about numbers and I'm all about ideas. I don't know about this guy. I have to say he's one of the people that I respect more than anyone else now on that board because he brings his own unique perspective and I would never had appreciated him or gotten to know him if I hadn't been on that board. It's pretty cool when you're on all these different things together and you get to start to appreciate all the different people from different walks of life that are passionate about the same things and horses.

Chris Stafford: Then, of course, you've become involved with the US Equestrian Federation, as a result of your roles with the USEA, too, haven't you?

John Hollings: Yes. Absolutely. When you're on the USEA board, I think people start to realize that you actually have something to contribute and I would like to think because of some of the good work that I was able to do at the USEA, then they asked me to be on the USEF boards and committees as well. I'm actually on the USEF eventing technical committee currently, which is really cool because that committee actually is a committee that ... it's funny. The USEA doesn't write the rules. They can come up with some great ideas though, and then they pass them forward. The USEF is actually the keeper of the rules for that technical committee. It sort of fields all of those different requests or concerns or rule changes that the USEA maybe comes up with. It's been really cool to see how the system works and get to be a part of that USEF technical committee.

I'm also currently on the active athletes committee, which is great because that's just a big honor because that actually the athletes who nominate you and ask you to be on there. So, I really love being on that committee and you have a little bit more of a foot in the door of high performance there, which is cool.

I'm also on the competitions committee, which is really cool. Actually, I won't like, it's a little bit hard for me to follow sometimes, because that is a committee of people who are in charge of different competitions, organizers, athletes, in all disciplines in USEF. Last night, or yesterday afternoon, we actually had a meeting. We went over hunter jumper rules, Hackney pony rules, driving rules, dressage rules. Actually, not one single rule for eventing. So, I sat there listening to all these rules yesterday, and I actually didn't have much to say, but it's really interesting listening to these very important people in their disciplines and how they run their sports. It's pretty neat.

Chris Stafford: As your tenure comes to an end at the convention this week, John, on these committees, is this something you're going to miss?

John Hollings: I'm going to miss it tremendously. It's funny. You do this in the beginning and it seems like, gosh, six years is a really long time to be on the board. And it is. Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to miss all the conference calls and all that. Because I'm on the board, I'm also on the executive committee. We have monthly calls, as I'm the VP of active athletes. So we have monthly calls for that, and I'm not going to necessarily miss all the meetings. I am going to miss it. It's been a huge part of my life for the last six years, as well. I'm going to be off of the board, then I'll be off of the executive committee for the USEA, so I'm certainly losing, I'm certainly stepping off of two pretty important groups right there. Then there's some other stuff that I'm not sure I would like to ... I would like to think that I'll still be involved on some committees and things. Going forward, I'm also still on the cross country fence design and safety task force that was put together and I coach there with Sarah Brussard. I still get to do that. I think that group is doing something that's going to last long term to try to make sure we're all looking at ways to improve the safety of the sport.

I'll still be involved in a couple of things, but the two biggies, I think, that take the most amount of time, I'm going to be off of. I'll be a little bit melancholy about it, for sure. It's been a pretty tumultuous beginning with all of the safety stuff that's been going on and Kevin Baumgartner did such a great job as President then, sort of shepherding us through that and dealing with the USEF and the USEA relationships. Then we had Brian Sabo come in and he was a great President and did some amazing things to bring the professional voice out. Now we have Diane Pitts, who really brings a whole other side to it and I was one of the people who sort of suckered her into taking that shot, so, sorry Diane. She's a great President, as well, I think we're going to see over the next two years that she has left in her term. Again, some additional voice for the high performance side of things and trying to bring everybody together.

It's cool, all the stuff that's happened, and I'm a little bit sorry to see myself stepping off right now.

Chris Stafford: You get some of your life back though, John.

John Hollings: Yes, absolutely. I do. I get to have a little bit more free time and all of that, but, I don't know. I think somebody, and I know it's not a new thing, but somebody said to me one time, you know, if you want to get something done, give it to a busy person. I like to be busy. I like to have stuff to do. It's a little bit like occasionally about once a month, I'll get a day where I can sit inside and watch football. I've got to tell you, after I sit down, and watch a football game and hang out for the afternoon, it takes a lot to get myself motivated to do something again. So, I like to stay moving and busy and have lots of things going on. Otherwise, I can get sedentary pretty quickly.

Chris Stafford: I think a lot of people would agree that you are a really good, quintessential committee type of person. If you weren't doing this in the horse business, what do you think you would do?

John Hollings: I don't know. I have no idea. I've wanted to be involved with horses since I was probably a sophomore in high school. I knew I wanted to do it and I didn't know what exactly I was going to be able to do. I actually rode in a clinic with [inaudible 00:25:11] and she asked me what I wanted to do with horses and I told her I had no idea. She's the one who got me my working student position with Peter Gray.

I left from high school to go do that, much to my parent's dismay at the time. I said to myself, I'm going to go do this and give it a shot and at least if I'm not any good, I'll know. I won't spend my whole life wondering what I could have done. Had it not worked out as a rider, I think I probably would have pursued being a blacksmith. I did that for a summer in high school and I really loved that. So, I think horses would have been a part of my life no matter what. I think most people better involved in horses would tell you that whatever they're doing right now, if they were doing something different, they would still have it as a big part of their lives and for sure I would.

Chris Stafford: Clearly, you're an example to anyone who is thinking of becoming a committee member, that everyone has something to bring to the party. I know that you would encourage them to get involved with the sport's administration.

John Hollings: Absolutely. Again, I guess that's sort of my ... if I could say one thing to everybody, that would absolutely be it. I joke sometimes to the board and I think sometimes they think I'm serious, but I'm really just sort of joking around, where I say, you know, this was my idea, but you guys are way smarter than me, so you figure it out. Occasionally, they'll laugh and sometimes they look a little uncomfortable. It's the truth. I have a high school education. I didn't go to university because I went and pursued my riding. I was very fortunate to be able to do that.

You sit there in that board with some super well educated, extremely intelligent people and it's a little bit humbling sometimes that they'll listen to what I have to say. It's pretty cool, to be honest. If you meet these people, and you think, gosh, they are so far out of my league of intelligence, and yet here they are listening to what I have to say and what I'm trying to contribute. It's pretty cool. I guess that is the point, you know, again, not to get too reflective here, but I'm just some kid from Milwaukee. I did my first event when I was about 14. I didn't know anything about it, again, until I left to go to Canada to work for Peter at 19. I didn't even know young riders was happening in Chicago. It's possible for anyone in this country, if they want to do it, to get involved and have a voice and to make themselves a life in eventing.

I think one of the most important people that I've actually gotten to know, what is probably the most influential people in the sport, certainly in the USEA, is Joe Whitehouse. She really has been there the entire time that I've been there and certainly before, and could be there after. I think, as the CEO, she doesn't always get the all the credit she deserves. If you're going to talk bout who probably the most influential person within the USEA is, it would be Joe. She has an amazing ability to be able to be a leader and guide people and guide discussions and groups, and yet speaks the most softly and quietly and politely as anybody on that board. I think sometimes when I want people to hear me, I tend to speak up and talk louder and Joe has this ability to remain calm and the same and you listen more intently the more she speaks. I just want to make sure that I get to mention how influential on everything she had been certainly a big part of my education throughout the entire process of getting able to be a member of the board on the USEA.

Chris Stafford: Very well said John, and I know your contribution has been very much appreciated here at the USEA, so thank you very much again for all that you've done.

John Hollings: Thank you. I won't be going far. I really appreciate it.

Chris Stafford: And you too can become involved in committee work. There are lots of opportunities, which you can learn about during the convention this week. You can find daily reports and photos from the convention on the website at useventing.com. We'll also have a review on the podcast next week of the convention highlights.

Don't forget this podcast can be downloaded from the iTunes store to your smartphone podcast apps. Until the next time, thank you for listening and enjoy your eventing.